How to Read the Bible (sequel 1)

Many christians who have the idea that Jesus would be an incarnation of God forget the Words of God Himself about incarnation and how the many gods, called in the Bible are often called incarnations, like Apis the Egyptian bull being an incarnation of the god Osiris, whose successor Horus also came to earth in the incarnated god Pharaoh and had a conflict with another person (Moses) also named god in the bible.

Here you may find one of the first reasons why it is so important always to remember who is talking and what this person says about others and about specific situations or actions.

In the previous article we cold find Andrew Mills speaking of Jesus’ incarnation. This is a nice example how he as many Christians lets him carried away when reading the Bible, by allowing human traditions and philosophies holding his mind.

There are many Christians who like to think of an incarnation, and especially consider Jesus to be an incarnation of God, loving to think Jesus would not be a real human person, drawing attention to the expression

“resided [literally, “tented”] among us”

and

“the Word became flesh and resided among us.”

claiming this shows Jesus was, not a true human, but God having come to earth in the form of a man.

English: Adam and Eve are being sent out of th...
angels are also called gods in the bible, though they are no incarnation of God, even when they did come to the earth to bring certain messages to people. – Adam and Eve are being sent out of the garden of Eden – (Photo credit: Wikipedia)

When Christians would look closer at the bible text and would remember the way of speaking of Jewish people, they could notice that the apostle John is speaking about “a Word” which is the result of speaking or letting the breath coming out the mouth, utter and having it making sounds. The youngest pupil of Christ knew, like his master teacher, very well the Hebrew Scriptures (by many Christians called the Biblia Hebraica) and knew exactly what was promised in the Garden of Eden, where God spoke to man. It was there, at the beginning of times, that God spoke and had His Word or Voice sounded for all to know, that here would come a solution against the fall of man and the curse of death. The apostle John was convinced that his master Jeshua (Jesus) was that promised Kristos (Christ) and was that man about Whom God not only spoke in the Garden of Eden, but also at other times and in other places (to Abraham, Jeremiah, David, Isaiah, Micah, Zechariah, Malachi, a.o.).  Throughout the ages God spoke about a “Redeemer” to come, a “Messiah“.
It was that speaking of God, “His Words spoken” that brought not only “the Word” of God, “out of heaven,” but was brought into reality by bringing a being, in the flesh. By placing a child in a young woman, by speaking to her (once again a Word spoken and a word becoming reality) when that woman, with child, gave birth, the Word of God “became flesh.” (Joh 1:1; 1Co 15:47; Php 2:5-8; Joh 1:14; 1Ti 3:16) That in being born as a human he was no spirit and that he did not merely assume a fleshly body, as angels had done in the past (Ge 18:1-3; 19:1; Jos 5:13-15), is attested to by the apostle John, who says that one is antichrist who denies that Jesus Christ came “in the flesh.” (1Jo 4:2, 3) In order to provide the ransom for mankind and thereby to help those who would be his associates in the heavenly calling, the Word became flesh, being born all human, no incarnation. The Bible tells us this:

“Since the ‘young children’ are sharers of blood and flesh, he also similarly partook of the same things.” (Hebrews 2:14-16)

His earthly sojourn was spoken of as “the days of his flesh.” (Heb 5:7)

“The bread that I shall give is my flesh in behalf of the life of the world,”

Jesus said. He went on to state that those hoping to remain in union with him must ‘eat his flesh and drink his blood.’ Not appreciating the spiritual, symbolic significance of his words, some construed the statement as cannibalistic and were shocked.(Joh 6:50-60).

Louvres-antiquites-egyptiennes-p1020068.jpg
Statue of Apis (Hapi-ankh) the sacred bull worshipped in the Memphis region. Being sacrificed and reborn he also served as an intermediary between humans and other powerful deities (originally Ptah, later Osiris, then Atum). – Thirtieth dynasty of Egypt (Louvre)

In my third post I also tried to show that the identity of Jesus Christ as Immanuel did not mean he was the incarnation of God, ‘God in the flesh,’ like so many christians do want us to believe. Proponents of the Trinity teaching claim it is implied by the meaning of Immanuel, namely, “With Us Is God” that God would be entered in his world in Jesus his body. They do forget that ‘incarnation’ is an abomination in God’s eyes and was the common practice in the thought of those who worshipped false gods, like the living Apis bull being an incarnation of the god Osiris and also an emanation of the god Ptah (vocalized as Pitaḥ in ancient Egypt). The Bible also speaks of the god Pharaoh, who was thought to be the incarnation of the falcon-headed god Horus the successor of Osiris.

Plato (428/427 bce-348/34bce), ancient Greek philosopher, student of Socrates (c. 470–399 bce), teacher of Aristotle (384–322 bce), and founder of the Academy

Clearly many Christian worshippers where influenced by Plato and other philosophers, who were firmly convinced that

“the soul outlives its present incarnation, to be duly rewarded or punished” {Plato}

in the afterlife, based on how the person lived while on earth.

It was a common practice among Jews to embody the word “God,” even “Jehovah,” in Hebrew names. Even today Immanuel is the proper name of many men, none of whom are incarnations of God.

It was by God His Holy Spirit, (God’s Power) that God caused conception in the womb of the young girl Miriam (today better known as the virgin Mary). As a result, Jesus was born as a perfect, sinless human. (Matthew 1:18; Luke 1:35; John 8:46).

When we take up the bible we should know that we may find words from those above mentioned Hebrew Nevi’im or prophets, of which Jesus was one of them. But there words were to be written down, inspired by the Most High Almighty. When reading the Bible we should then as such remember it are the Words like God wanted them to be brought over to mankind. The bible is therefore not to be looked at as the word of man but as the Word of God.

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Preceding articles:

How to Read the Bible

Called Immanuel does not mean to be Jesus being God

Next: How to Read the Bible (sequel 2)

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Further reading

  1. Creation purpose and warranty
  2. Challenging claim 1 Whose word
  3. Jesus begotten Son of God #4 Promised Prophet and Saviour
  4. A season for truth and peace
  5. Ransom for all
  6. How did the Trinity Doctrine Develop
  7. Trinity matter
  8. Altered to fit a Trinity
  9. Does there have to be a Holy Trinity?
  10. The Trinity – the truth

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Other articles related to the matters mentioned

  1. Grey Matter and the Afterlife
  2. The Afterlife of Furry Friends
  3. The afterlife
  4. A Strange Work
  5. A good thought for today…
  6. He was in the beginning
  7. The Picture of Advent
  8. God Himself
  9. Karma & Causation 
  10. Christianity – Nature of God
  11. I used to write Christmas letters
  12. What does the Afterlife have to do with Christmas? Making Christmas meaningful to you today.
  13. We Look Like in Heaven
  14. Do you believe that life does end, or may end, at death?
  15. Baby Jesus vs Superman
  16. Daddy’s Girl~ A Christmas Memoir
  17. Review: The Discourses of Epictetus
  18. What Resurrection Means
  19. Life to the world — full of Glory!
  20. Jesus-shaped Spirituality
  21. The Glory of His Work
  22. Light in Darkness
  23. Nativity
  24. Look again
  25. Incarnation and Image
  26. Incarnate
  27. Incarnation Part 2: Humanity
  28. Reflections at the Manger
  29. Lighting the Candle of Fellowship
  30. May God let his face shine upon us
  31. The reason for the season
  32. The hospitality of the nativity, or Yesterday was a lovely day to spend Christmas in Monaco
  33. A Christmas prayer
  34. Nativity 2016
  35. Sermon – Christmas Eve – December 24, 2016
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  37. Christmas Day sermon
  38. And the Word became flesh and tented among us: A Sermon for Christmas Day, 2016
  39. God Breaks Through
  40. Christmas Again
  41. Breath of God (Merry Christmas)
  42. Merry Christmas
  43. Of the Father’s Love Begotten
  44. “The Spittin’ Image Of The Almighty!”
  45. God with us
  46. Paul Harvey’s “A Man and the Birds” (A Christmas Story)
  47. Christmas was humiliating for God
  48. The Last Day of An Advent Calendar: Christmas Day!
  49. The birth of Jesus points to the real reason for the season
  50. Behold the Son!…Love’s greatest sacrifice!
  51. It’s the messiest time of the year!
  52. “This Thing That Has Taken Place”
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  59. Breathe
  60. Jesus in the filth
  61. Come, Let Us Adore Him
  62. Day Twenty-Eight of An Advent Calendar (Evening): Christmas Eve – Pouring Out Divinity into Humanity
  63. when the Son became man
  64. Rejoice!
  65. Christmas’ surprising announcement
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  77. The Opportunities Of Christmas
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  82. Incarnation Matters
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  85. The Humility of the Incarnation
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  91. Reflecting on the incarnation (3)
  92. Reflecting on the incarnation (4)
  93. Reflecting on the incarnation (5)
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72 thoughts on “How to Read the Bible (sequel 1)

  1. Isaiah 9:6, “For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace”. Is the child and son technically the same? The child is yeled (yeh-led), while the son is ben (pronounced-bane). This is the dual nature of Him. John 1:1,”In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God”. It goes on to teach that this Word created all things. Verse 14 is indicative of the INCARNATION whether one decides to read the Bible well or not. HE calls Himself the Almighty in Revelation 1:8. Almighty is pantokrator (pan-tok-rat’-ore), in Greek, meaning:
    ‘1. the all-ruling; all-powerful; i.e. God (as absolute and universal sovereign)’. If Yeshua is the Elohiym and Elohiym is essentially plural, why should a very knowledgeable person like you find it difficult to believe the scriptural concept of Divine TRINITY? Trinity is there in the first three verses of Genesis. I have post on “TRINITY” please do check it out and tell me your view. Your logo reminds me of the so-called ‘Star of David’. I hope you do not believe in it. Merriam-Webster’s Dictionary defines incarnation as: ‘(1): the embodiment of a deity or spirit in some earthly form (2)cap: the union of divinity with humanity in Jesus Christ’. Thank you for stopping by my post.

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    1. When you look at scriptures many beings are called god, which is a title given to higher placed or important people, what we still see to happen today. Do you think those people like Moses, Pharaoh, Apollo, Baal, Presley, Clooney, are really The God?
      Jesus as an important person may be called god but that does not make him the God of gods.

      The opening van John’s writing is in the manner of the Bereshith looking at The God Almighty Who spoke and by His Speaking, the uttering of the Word, matters came into being and so also Christ Jesus came into being. You yourself sees that it was that Word bringing all things into creation or being. But here the apostle looks also at the New Word, the word Christ Jesus was able to create, because God His Word, God His act of promising and God His act of saying to the prophets He would provide a Messiah and to the young girl she would be child, brought her with child, giving her life. As such by being her with the special child, a god, the promise o the Word spoken at the Garden of Eden became a reality and the promised Redeemer came into the flesh = the Word became flesh.

      John 1:1-5 (TS98)

      John 1
      1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with Elohim, and the Word was elohim. 2 He was in the beginning with Elohim. 3 All came to be through Him, and without Him not even one came to be that came to be. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

      It was the Word = the result of speaking, that was with God and from God. The Elohim is one of the elohim, a God between gods.

      In the original text of the apostle is written:

      Yah Chanan (#Jo 1:1-3): In the beginning the Word having been and the Word having been unto God and God having been the Word he having been, in the beginning, unto God all through his hand became: and without him not even one being whatever became. (Aramaic New Covenant; ANCJ Released: 1996 Contents: New Testament Source Used: Exegeses Bibles (1996)Location: Tyndale House, Cambridge, United Kingdom)

      Which could be brought in contemporary English as

      1 In [the] beginning+ the Word*+ was, and the Word was with God,*+ and the Word was a god.*+ 2 This one was in [the] beginning+ with God.+ 3 All things came into existence through him,+ and apart from him not even one thing came into existence.

      What has come into existence 4 by means of him was life,+ and the life was the light+ of men.* 5 And the light is shining in the darkness,+ but the darkness has not overpowered it. (Ref.B)

      Or could be simply said as

      “In a beginning was the Word, and the Word was with the God, and a god was the Word.” (Emphatic Diaglott – interlineary side)

      “For the LORD your God [is] God of gods, and Lord of lords, a great God, a mighty, and a terrible, which regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward:” (Deuteronomy 10:17 AV)

      You seem to forget what is written before in the Holy Scriptures

      Deuteronomy 10:17 (TS98)
      17 “For יהוה your Elohim is Elohim of mighty ones and Master of masters, the great Ěl, mighty and awesome, who shows no partiality nor takes a bribe. “For the LORD your God [is] God of gods, and Lord of lords, a great God, a mighty, and a terrible, which regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward:” (Deuteronomy 10:17 AV)

      There is the Great Ěl Who has spoken, given His Word and that Word came into fulfilment when Jesus was born. The Great Ěl, יהוה our Elohim Hashem Jehovah, gave authority to that one Who He called His only begotten son. Never did God say it was Him coming down to earth. We also should remember that the Most High God of gods never tells lies, so when He says something we should believe that what He says. He declares Jesus to be His only begotten beloved son, and as such we should believe that Jesus is the son of God who was authorised and not a god son who has all the power or to whom would everything belong. Everything belogns to the God of gods Who has all the Power but allowed Jesus to do miraculous things. Without God Jesus could do nothing.

      Matthew 3:17 (TS98)
      17 and see, a voice out of the heavens, saying, “This is My Son, the Beloved, in whom I did delight.”

      John 1:18 (TS98)
      18 No one has ever seen Elohim. The only brought-forth Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He did declare.

      John 3:16 (TS98)
      16 “For Elohim so loved the world that He gave His only brought-forth Son, so that everyone who believes in Him should not perish but possess everlasting life.

      Matthew 28:18 (TS98)
      18 And יהושע came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. or “And Jesus came to them and spake unto them, saying, All authority hath been given unto me in heaven and on earth.” (Matthew 28:18 ASV)

      “and he gave him authority to execute judgment, because he is a son of man.” (John 5:27 ASV)

      “27 Peace I leave with you; my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be fearful. 28 ¶ Ye heard how I said to you, I go away, and I come unto you. If ye loved me, ye would have rejoiced, because I go unto the Father: for the Father is greater than I. 29 And now I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye may believe. 30 I will no more speak much with you, for the prince of the world cometh: and he hath nothing in me; 31 but that the world may know that I love the Father, and as the Father gave me commandment, even so I do. Arise, let us go hence.” (John 14:27-31 ASV)

      “17 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh even until now, and I work. 18 For this cause therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only brake the sabbath, but also called God his own Father, making himself equal with God. 19 Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father doing: for what things soever he doeth, these the Son also doeth in like manner. 20 For the Father loveth the Son, and showeth him all things that himself doeth: and greater works than these will he show him, that ye may marvel. 21 For as the Father raiseth the dead and giveth them life, even so the Son also giveth life to whom he will. 22 For neither doth the Father judge any man, but he hath given all judgment unto the Son; 23 that all may honor the Son, even as they honor the Father. He that honoreth not the Son honoreth not the Father that sent him. 24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth him that sent me, hath eternal life, and cometh not into judgment, but hath passed out of death into life. 25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour cometh, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God; and they that hear shall live. 26 For as the Father hath life in himself, even so gave he to the Son also to have life in himself: 27 and he gave him authority to execute judgment, because he is a son of man. 28 Marvel not at this: for the hour cometh, in which all that are in the tombs shall hear his voice, 29 and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of judgment. 30 I can of myself do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is righteous; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 31 If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true. 32 It is another that beareth witness of me; and I know that the witness which he witnesseth of me is true. 33 Ye have sent unto John, and he hath borne witness unto the truth. 34 But the witness which I receive is not from man: howbeit I say these things, that ye may be saved. 35 He was the lamp that burneth and shineth; and ye were willing to rejoice for a season in his light. 36 But the witness which I have is greater than [that of] John; for the works which the Father hath given me to accomplish, the very works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.” (John 5:17-36 ASV)

      “Then [cometh] the end, when he shall deliver up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have abolished all rule and all authority and power.” (1 Corinthians 15:24 ASV)

      Clearly those writings show that the one who did not do his own will, what he would have done when he is God, is lower than God and not God himself.

      When reading the Scriptures one should also compare the sayings with each other at the different places in the different books which all together make the Bible or Holy Scriptures.

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      1. “In the beginning existed the Logos, and the Logos was with God, and the Logos was a god.” (The Monotessaron)

        And the word became flesh, and tabernacled {” Tabernacled ” for ” dwelt “ } among us ( and we beheld His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father ), full of grace and truth. (John 1:14 Sacred Scriptures, Bethel Edition)

        “the Word,” who became flesh, lived on the earth as the man Jesus and was seen by people. Therefore, he could not have been Almighty God, regarding whom John says: “No man has seen God at any time.” — (John 1:14,18).

        For me John in his first chapter is speaking about the Word which is a result of speaking. For me it is also clearly when you compare it with the other books of the Bible, that John is composing his working the lineage of Moses his writing about the beginning of the universe and what happened there. It was in the Void that God spoke and the universe came into being + it was there at the beginning of times that in the garden of Eden God spoke to the first human beings when they had opposed God. There God made a first promise for a solution against their transgression.

        The apostle John saw in his master teacher that that Nazerene man had to be that promised solution, the promised Kristos or Messiah. It is in this context that the apostle, being convinced that now with the offering of Jesus new times had come. for this reason he looks at Jesus to be the fulfilment of God’s promise, God’s Word, spoken in the past, and now having come into being by Jesus in the flesh, being born to bring salvation for all people.

        John in the first and 14th verse lets us know that the promise made or the Word spoken, which was from the beginning, that which we should have heard, that which we should have seen with our eyes, that which we should beheld, and which have many of lovers of God their hands handled, that he as apostle for his master, concerning the Word of life, has written unto those who knew Christ from the beginning but also unto us, because we should know him who is from the beginning. Jesus not only like us written from the beginning in the Book of life and death, but also being the promised one in the most earliest days of history of man. Therefore John has written unto the young men in his time but also to us, because we should be strong, and the word of God should abide in us, us having to overcome the evil one, like Christ did. (1 John 1:1; 1 John 2:13-14 )

        When looking at what John further says about Jesus, there is no doubt that Jesus cannot be God, Who is has always been the Most High and always shall be the Most High, whilst Jesus was lower than angels and was made higher than angels and man, to come to sit next to God, to be a mediator between God and man. If Jesus is God he cannot be a mediator between himself and man, is it not?

        Look at what John writes. Do you than not believe what Jesus himself says?

        Clearly Christians who believe in the Trinity do not seem to believe that the Elohim sent Jesus, but are convinced that God Himself came down to earth to do as if He was a man of flesh and blood, though God has no flesh and blood and is a Spirit. So why do they not believe God is an eternal Spiritual Being, like the Bible says?

        “17 But Yahshua answered them, My Father works till now, and I work. 18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God. 19 Then answered Yahshua and said to them, Truly, truly, I say to you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he sees the Father do: for whatever things he does, these also does the Son likewise. 20 For the Father loves the Son, and shows him all things that himself does: and he will show him greater works than these, that you may marvel. 21 For as the Father raises up the dead, and revives \@them;\@ even so the Son revives whom he will. 22 For the Father judges no man, but has committed all judgment to the Son: 23 That all \@men\@ should honor the Son, even as they honor the Father. He that honors not the Son honors not the Father which has sent him. 24 Truly, truly, I say to you, He that hears my word, and believes on him that sent me, has everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. 25 Truly, truly, I say to you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. 26 For as the Father has life in himself; so has he given to the Son to have life in himself; 27 And has given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man. 28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, to the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, to the resurrection of damnation. 30 I can of my own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not my own will, but the will of the Father which has sent me.

        31 If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true. 32 There is another that bears witness of me; and I know that the witness which he witnesses of me is true. 33 You sent to John, and he bore witness to the truth. 34 But I receive not testimony from man: but these things I say, that you might be saved. 35 He was a burning and a shining light: and you were willing for a season to rejoice in his light. 36 But I have greater witness than \@that\@ of John: for the works which the Father has given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father has sent me.” (John 5:17-36 KJBPNV)

        “27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give to you: not as the world gives, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid. 28 ¶ You have heard how I said to you, I go away, and come \@again\@ to you. If you loved me, you would rejoice, because I said, I go to the Father: for my Father is greater than I 29 And now I have told you before it comes to pass, that, when it has come to pass, you might believe. 30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world comes, and has nothing in me. 31 But that the world may know that I love the Father; and as the Father gave me commandment, even so I do. Arise, let us go away.” (John 14:27-31 KJBPNV)

        “God \@is\@ a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship \@him\@ in spirit and in truth.” (John 4:24 KJBPNV)

        Therefore lovers of God should give each Biblical the right honour and reverence and should only worship One true God of gods.

        Jesus being a god, like angels, Poses, Pharaoh, Baal, Apollo, Zeus, and others in the Bible are called god, should be taken for what he is and for what he has done. According to God His Word Jesus is the Way to God and not the way to himself (which cannot be.)

        Again taking the writer of that Gospel and of the Book of Revelation.

        “Yahshua said to him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man comes to the Father, but by me.” (John 14:6 KJBPNV)

        “Truly, truly, I say to you, He that hears my word, and believes on him that sent me, has everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.” (John 5:24 KJBPNV)

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      2. The third word, ‘beginning’ of Genesis is re’shiyth (ray-sheeth’) ‘1. the first, in place, time, order or rank (specifically, a firstfruit)’. If the Word had been there ‘in the beginning’ does it not follow that it shares eternity with the Father? No other thing shares eternity with the Father. If the Word is God’s word, what, if I may ask, is the difference between a person’s word and himself? John 8:58 tells us, “Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am”. The verbs, ‘was’ and ‘am’ are not one of the inflection of the other in the sense that ‘was’ is ginomai (ghin’-om-ai): ‘1. to cause to be (“gen”-erate) 2. (reflexively) to become (come into being)’. Abraham had a beginning. The ‘I am’ is ‘ego eime’, which happens to be the same as ‘I AM THAT I AM – JEHOVAH’. Who is Jehovah? Eimi (ei-mee’) means: ‘I exist’. It is not a coming into being, in this context. He is the Being Himself. There are instances of Him, in His pre-incarnate manifestations, being addressed as LORD (in capitals, LORD is Jehovah). He is the LORD God of Genesis chapters 1, 3, 17 and 18.
        Will David, as king, accept the spiritual Lordship of another? Why would he proclaim in Psalm 11o, “The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?”
        Psalm 23 says, “The LORD is my shepherd…”; Psalm 80, “Give ear, O Shepherd of Israel, thou that leadest Joseph like a flock…” and what did Jesus say in John 10:11? “I am the good shepherd”. It may interest you, The word ‘beginning’ of Genesis is re’shiyth (ray-sheeth’) ‘1. the first, in place, time, order or rank (specifically, a firstfruit)’. If the Word had been there ‘in the beginning’ does it not follow that it shares eternity with the Father? No other thing shares eternity with the Father. if the Word is God’s word, what, if I may ask is the difference between a person’s word and himself? John 8:58 tells us, “Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am”. The verbs, ‘was’ and ‘am’ are not one of the inflection of the other in the sense that ‘was’ is ginomai (ghin’-om-ai): ‘1. to cause to be (“gen”-erate) 2. (reflexively) to become (come into being)’. Abraham had a beginning. The ‘I am’ is ‘ego eime’, which happens to be the same as ‘I AM THAT I AM – JEHOVAH’. Who is Jehovah? Eimi (ei-mee’) means: ‘I exist’. It is not a coming into being. He is the Being Himself. There are instances of Him, in His pre-incarnate manifestations, being addressed as LORD (in capitals, LORD is Jehovah). He is the LORD God of Genesis chapters 1, 3, 17 and 18.
        Will David, as king, accept the spiritual Lordship of another? Why would he proclaim in Psalm 11o, “The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?”
        Psalm 23 says, “The LORD is my shepherd…”; Psalm 80, “Give ear, O Shepherd of Israel, thou that leadest Joseph like a flock…” and what did Jesus say in John 10:11? “I am the good shepherd”. It may interest you, Immanuel, that the “I am’ is the same ‘ego eime!’ Simply put, Jesus is very God of very God. There are so many verses that proves the Deity of Christ Jesus.

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        1. Jehovah is the One Who exist, but you too exist, the same as I exist and the same as Jesus existed. My father had also seen Abraham, but for sure I do know that he was not there existing before Abraham or at the time of Abraham. It is an expression and as such we should take that idiom for what it means. Also Jesus was already written down in the Book of life and death, long before Abraham, plus Jesus was also that promised one in the Garden of Eden, long long time before Abraham even was born. Therefore he had good reason to say that he was before Abraham.

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        2. Concerning the shepherd I wrote in one of my articles how we can have many shepherds, though they are not God. The same for Christ Jesus who was like David a shepherd. But nor David nor Christ are the same as the God Shepherd. Jesus, though is the shepherd who is going to sit at the right hand of God, notice not in the place of God, but next to God,which proofs Jesus is not that God, to be a mediator between man and God. When Jesus is God he cannot be the mediator between God and man.
          when you look also into your Bible it is written that Jesus after some time will hand over the Kingdom to his heavenly Father. So that shepherd who shall become our king tells us he himself can do nothing without God (so when he would be God he can do everything) and tells us that God is greater than him, whilst the Bible tells us also that Jesus was lower than angels, though God was, is and always shall be the Most High.

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          1. What you have failed to see is that Jesus used a definite article to demonstrate His pastoral office. ‘The’ good shepherd is indicative a well known shepherd. The Jews knew what He was teaching. Their stiff-necked stance was the bane of their ignorance. Jesus Christ is the hypostatic union, where man and God form a compound which is 100% God, 100% man. When He said “I thirst” or is seen sleeping that is the humanity of Him. When the scripture quotes Him as saying, “I am the Resurrection”, “If you see me you have seen the Father”, “Ask me anything and I will do it”, “I have come to give you life and life more abundantly”: that’s the Deity (check it out only God can achieve those feats). Please do read my post, “TRINITY (Mythical or a Reality?). I’d love to see your candid comments there as well. Thanks, Immanuel.

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            1. You talk about me not allowed to go into philosophy,but you are using unbiblical terms like “hypostatic union”.

              You also seem to miss the point that Jesus is the resurrection. He himself was taken out of the dead after having resided for three days in hell. God can not die and what would He have to look for in hell? Jesus his resurrection is an example to what can happen to us as well. This is the hope we may have. In your religion, by having a god who faked his birth, temptations, death and resurrection, man has no proof to what can happen with him when or after he dies. Those believing in Christ Jesus have that justified magnificent hope and may count on it that Jesus is the mediator between God and man. In your instance when Jesus is God he is not able to mediate, because such a thing can not be called mediating and than Jesus had schizophrenic tendencies here on earth, praying to himself and even asking to himself why he had abandoned himself, something which nobody can do and would be a very strange thing to do.

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              1. Why would you not do a simple thing: read the post I ask you to read. You’ll find answers there. If you’re not satisfied give your comments and I’ll respond.

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                1. I read your texts and did comment on it after I also had a look on different articles of yours, to have an idea what you are thinking and where your ideas come from. Today I do know they mainly come form the doctrines of your church and not so much from Biblical reading.

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                  1. Please be kind enough to let me know whether you’re an Israelite or not or maybe of a Jewish religion. Like my church, I take everything from the scriptures. Did I ask whether you’re born again? If I didn’t, please what do you think of it?

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                  2. It may interest you to know that the Church is God’s most guarded secret. Matthew 16:18, “And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it”. Peter, petros, in Greek, means ‘a piece of rock’. The ‘rock’. referring to the Lord, Himself, is petra, meaning ‘a large boulder of rock (like the rock of Gibraltar). This is the rock of ages. Christ is ageless. He also says in Matthew 18:17, “And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell [it] unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican”. What is the Church? The Greek calls it, ekklesia (ek-klay-see’-ah)
                    1. (properly) a “calling out”
                    2. (concretely) a called out assembly of citizens
                    3. (specifically, of Christ) the community of the Redeemed of Christ whether being on earth or in heaven or both’. Galatians 1:11-13 reads, “11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. 12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught [it], but by the revelation of Jesus Christ. 13 For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews’ religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it”. If you do not believe Apostle Paul like so many Jews, I understand, perfectly! Peter wrote of what the Church is in custody of: “1Pet 1:10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace [that should come] unto you:
                    1Pet 1:11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
                    1Pet 1:12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.
                    1Pet 1:13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;
                    1Pet 1:14 As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance”. Who were Peter accusing of ignorance? Notice even the angels bend in Church services to look into the Bible. This is the Church age in God’s dispensation.

                    Who is the LORD in the first two verses of Ps 24? “A Psalm of David. The earth [is] the LORD’S, and the fulness thereof; the world, and they that dwell therein.
                    Ps 24:2 For he hath founded it upon the seas, and established it upon the floods”. And who is the One of the last 4 verses? It reads: ” 7 Lift up your heads, O ye gates; and be ye lift up, ye everlasting doors; and the King of glory shall come in. 8 Who [is] this King of glory? The LORD strong and mighty, the LORD mighty in battle. 9 Lift up your heads, O ye gates; even lift [them] up, ye everlasting doors; and the King of glory shall come in. 10 Who is this King of glory? The LORD of hosts, he [is] the King of glory. Selah”. This is Jesus, of Psalm 118:22 “The stone [which] the builders refused is become the head [stone] of the corner”. Jesus quoted this in Matthew 21:42. Every LORD of Psalm 24 is Jehovah: for it’s rendered in capitals. Whose ownership is the fullness of the earth and who is the gates being commanded to lifted for? Selah. In Genesis 18:1 the Visitant was named Yahweh. Abraham realizing His LORD’s appearance called Him Adonay.

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        3. David was not speaking of Jesus. David believed in the God of the Jews, the God of Abraham Who is only One God and not three in one. Jews would never believe Jesus is God

          David was talking about the Most High Adonai, the Elohim Hashem Jehovah, who is the shepherd of this and many other shepherds and how God guided so many people. Jesus being the way to God would also lead people like many other teachers would lead so many to the best way of life, though those leaders or shepherds are not God.

          I believe in the Old Roman Catholic Church, the Roman Catholic Church, and know that in the Charismatic Catholic church they call some of their preachers “shepherds”, though I do hope not that they take them to be God.

          When Jesus replied “I am” like we would reply any person who ask if we are so and so, we would say “I am”, but for sure that does not mean we say we are Gdo or that we are God.

          Are you H.O.Ojewalle? Are you the writer of the site “H.O. Ojewale – Showing the true word of God.”? Are you black?

          What did you reply every time?

          What would you reply when you should only give a short answer?

          Did you reply three times “I am”? do people then have to accept you are the three-une god?

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          1. Roman Catholic believe in a Mary who was born sinless just as Jesus. If that’s where you’re coming from, then I understand your stand. The true word of God is only for those who are as teachably meek as Moses. Jesus said “Abraham saw my day and he was glad”. I want to believe you have your own custom-made understanding of how a Jesus could be seen by an ancient Abraham. We teach the Bible not as Jews, from the point of Catholicism, Humanism or those who present a concoction of philosophy and Bible. We teach from the very scripture (I’m sure you’ve seen all of my comments). If after I’ve taken the pains to show you the original meanings of the words of scripture and you won’t try to, at least, find time to study it as well, but will want to hold onto your views which lack scriptural contextual basis, there’s little I can do. I’ve posted a teaching titled, “TRINITY (Mythical or a Reality)”. You can be nice to me, and to the good spirit of knowledge, find time to read it, (that’s if you don’t think that you alone knows everything). As far as the Bible is concerned, there’s only one school of thought- the Logos. Selah. The Trinitarian concept does not imply three Gods. There’s only one God. Where’s the Old Roman Catholic Church? Was it Peter who served as the first pope or Bishop (for he never held either of the office)?

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            1. I shall read your article.

              The Old Roman Catholic Church is one of the many denominations in the Catholic Church. You can find it in many countries, like in the Benelux.

              Concerning the role of Peter and the role of popes Ido know that is an umbilical position and no man is infallible. It is Christ Jesus who has to be the cornerstone of the Church of God and not any other man.

              Liked by 1 person

                1. I now gave reactions on two articles at your site.

                  You may find
                  https://hoojewale.wordpress.com/2015/10/01/trinity-mythical-or-a-reality-part-1/#comment-140
                  +
                  https://hoojewale.wordpress.com/2015/10/01/trinity-mythical-or-a-reality-part-1/#comment-141
                  +
                  https://hoojewale.wordpress.com/2015/10/10/trinity-mythical-or-a-reality-part-two/comment-page-1/#comment-142
                  +
                  https://hoojewale.wordpress.com/2015/10/10/trinity-mythical-or-a-reality-part-two/comment-page-1/#comment-143

                  Most of all Ido hope you will think about the quotes I included from the Holy Scriptures, because it are those Words of God Which can say it all. My words are of no importance, but God His Words, the Ones given in the Holy Scriptures are the Ones we have to listen at.

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      1. In Genesis 1:1, the first God and the God who said “Let there be light” is God the Father. In verse two we see the Third Member of the Godhead or Godhood (The HOLY SPIRIT) sitting like a mother bird to generate enough energy for the fructification of the Divine operation. The ‘Light’ called forth is not the sunlight. It’s not a creation. The light of creation is that of verse 14. John 1:4-14 intimate us with this Divine Light. ‘God’ in Genesis is Elohiym, a plural word for God/god. We understand Moses wasn’t writing about gods of idolatry. If 3 of Them are involved in creation and God does not allow anyone to share in His glory then the THREE are truly one. They do share the divine benediction of 2Corinthians 13:14, the baptism of the regenerated soul and they are one in John 10:30. Thanks for asking.

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        1. When you read Genesis 1, you seem to read it with all your human doctrines, which have nothing to do with Biblical doctrines. Nowhere in that first verse is written that ” the first God and the God who said “Let there be light” is God the Father” would be an other person than in verse two where according to you

          “we see the Third Member of the Godhead or Godhood (The HOLY SPIRIT) sitting like a mother bird to generate enough energy for the fructification of the Divine operation.”

          But where do you get that from? Where is such a thing written in the Bible?

          The plurality is the way we should use for a higher person. Moshe considered the Divine Creator as the Most High Supreme Being, so naturally he would use the plural form and as Most High that Supreme Omnipotent being would speak in the plural form or use the Royal We.

          The same as my earthly mother and father would say “we”,or my teachers and director, the same as presidents, kings and queens, would say ‘we’ when they speak to people, to me and to others, me nor my siblings or fellow students, or the citizens of the country, would consider to be the president, my father or teacher to be more than one person.

          When speaking about The Elohim it is also considered being a God of gods and as such a plural form is also a responsible choice.

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    2. Lovely Hojewaale to react on writings on this site of an Immanuel or some one who may bring “God with us”.

      Most often when trinitarians want to proof that Jesus is God we are confronted by them referring to John his opening of his Gospel + by the saying “I am” + by the saying Jesus is Immanuel that this means Jesus is God.

      The happy cry we all may sing

      “For to us a child is born, to us a son is given;
      and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called
      Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace”

      does not at all proof that Jesus is God, but talks about the one we should look forward to. It also clearly indicate what so many Christians are missing “For to us a child is born, to us a son is given”. That child being born, i.e. having come onto the world, having come into being (only then when it was born) is a ‘son’ given to the world. It nowhere says that it would be “a god son given” or even that it would be “God given to us”. God has always be there for all who wanted to hear and love Him. God has been always there, before time He was already there. It was He Who gave Himself to the universe He created. It was or is also Him who gives His son to mankind, to break the curse of death and to bring peace in the universe.

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      1. Will God ever leave His celestial throne? Has or had HE ever made a physical vacation of the seat of His heavenly throne, as the One administering the rainbow governance? Who walked into the Garden in the cool of the day, in Genesis 3? He had been doing that because the word ‘walking’, halak, in the Hebrew means ‘lifestyle’. Who did Moses behold on Mount Sinai? Who did Joshua see before the Israeli take over of Jericho? Do not forget Joshua gave Him an obeisant prostration. Israelites will not bow, in worship, to an angel. The scripture disapproves of it. There’re so many scriptural instances of the deity of Jesus. He said in John 10:30, “I and [my] Father are one”. The verb ‘are’ is esmen (es-men’) which means: ‘we are’. Esmen is the plural of eime and eime is the same as ‘AM’ in ‘I AM’, i.e. Jehovah. ‘One’ is the Greek heis (heis`) (including the neuter (etc.) hen): ‘one’. They are one in thought and in deed. Who else can boast of this affinity with Jehovah save Jehovah Himself? In the next verse they who understood the total import took stones to kill an ‘impostor’ of Jehovah! Please do come to the TRUTH. Amen! Thanks for your contribution.

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        1. My mother and father are also one, but I would never consider them to be one and the same person. People too have to become one with Christ, though I am sure they would not think they would become Christ themselves and would not become God themselves.

          You yourself write the answer but seems to miss it yourself:

          They are one in thought and in deed.

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          1. Philosophy always succeeds only in having the solutions to your problems hanging after it has bamboozled you with all the highfalutin words of vanity. Philosophy will not do here; it’s the express word of God that settles the spiritual question, Immanuel.

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            1. I keep to the words of the Bible, which are very clear by telling there is only One true Gdo and that Jesus is the sent one and the son of God. Nowhere in Scriptures is written that Jesus makes part of a Tri-une God, a word that even does not exist in the Bible.

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              1. 2Corinthians 13:14 “The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, [be] with you all. Amen”. God does not share His glory. How come some don’t ask why the THREE will share in this benediction? Matthew 28:19 says, “Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost”: the THREE are involved in the regeneration of the soul of the heavenly citizenry. Psalm 24:7-10 read: 7 Lift up your heads, O ye gates; and be ye lift up, ye everlasting doors; and the King of glory shall come in. 8 Who [is] this King of glory? The LORD strong and mighty, the LORD mighty in battle. 9 Lift up your heads, O ye gates; even lift [them] up, ye everlasting doors; and the King of glory shall come in. 10 Who is this King of glory? The LORD of hosts, he [is] the King of glory. Selah”. Maybe you don’t know but God the Father never vacates the throne, hence, there won’t be any need to open any gate for His entrance. This psalm shows the victorious entry of the Messiach, and the ‘LORD’ you see is the Hebrew Yhovah. How could the name of the risen Christ’s appearance be announced as Jehovah? If you do not see this then please do read my post: “TRINITY (Mystical or a Reality?). There are enough of scriptures and reasons given for easy clarification. If it does satisfy you just do me a favour; give your comments there just as I’ve done in your own site. Thanks.

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                1. Where do you get it from that “God does not share His glory” ? Every day we may see the glory of God and every day lots of people may feel the sharing of God’s glory in all the blessings they receive and in all the beauty we can see around us.

                  Again the next saying of yours clearly shows how you became used to see human doctrines or human sayings as biblical sayings. You write “Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost”: the THREE are involved in the regeneration of the soul of the heavenly citizenry.” But in the Bible there is no such “heavenly citizenry” for all people. Secondly to be baptised in the Name of god ánd in the Name of the Spirit is not indicating a three headed god nor a binair god. For such act of baptism we can be whitewashed under God’s interspection and give ourself to God His Power (the Holy Spirit), asking God’s Spirit to come over us like It did come over Jesus and over the apostles. With Jesus, the sent one from God, we have an intermediator one of us by God, sitting at the right hand of God. By our baptism we recognise that Jesus is the Way to God and that we want to come under him, being united with him, like Jesus is united with his heavenly Father. Our union or oneness with Christ does not make us to be Jesus nor to be God, like the oneness of Jesus with God did not make him to be God. It is in Jesus his name that we want to come to God and show this in our baptism, a spiritual and physical act as symbol of whitewashing ourselves form all the wrongdoings or sins we have done.

                  The regeneration of a so called soul, you are referring to, is also something umbilical which comes again from the Greek philosophers.

                  Such thinking shows us again how your thinking and interpretation of scripture is biassed with lots of philosophical human ways of thinking and ignoring the words black on white written in the book of books we should prefer above all human books.

                  You understandably got very confused by the Bible translations which left out God’s Name and had it replaced by a meaningless “Lord”. This way you like most readers of such translations can not see clear who is talked about and who is talking about whom. No wonder you got up muddled so much.

                  You also write:
                  ” If you do not see this then please do read my post: “TRINITY (Mystical or a Reality?). There are enough of scriptures and reasons given for easy clarification. If it does satisfy you just do me a favour; give your comments there just as I’ve done in your own site.”

                  I read several of your posts and could clearly see how you became to prefer human teachings instead of biblical teachings.

                  I have made you a favour by reacting on two articles which focus on the trinity. But I also read other articles which had also other biased teachings in it, it would take hours to go deeper in them and to show you the biblical standpoint.

                  My time is limited, but I do hope I could already shed some light of how I prefer to have the Bible speak for itself and how I find we as fallible human beings should listen to that infallible Word of God, putting it much higher than all the philosophies and so called theological writings or human books.

                  The Bible says it all. And in it there is no such thing as the Trinity. If God would be a Trinity and would like to see Him as a three-headed God the God of Order and Clarity would have made it very clear and would not mince.

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        2. You say that “there’re so many scriptural instances of the deity of Jesus” but their is a big difference to have some one who is divine and who is a divinity. when Jesus said in John 10:30, “I and [my] Father are one” he was telling the same thing lvoers say to each other and to others that they are one. Nobody is going to consider parents or lovers the same as CEO who should be one with theri company , to be the family or to be the house or to be the factory or to be more than one person having both partners to be also one person (at an other place or in an other life). You yourself come up with “The verb ‘are’ is esmen (es-men’) which means: ‘we are’”. You yourself recognise that “Esmen is the plural of eime” But than you make a strange conclusion saying that “eime is the same as ‘AM’ in ‘I AM’,” which you say is Jehovah. But “I am” is a form we get by using the verb “to be” when I say “I am” like Jesus also said in reply to the questions posed to him “I am” he gave the same reply we do when we are phoned are asked if we are so and so. You also seem to forget that Jehovah did not just say that he was, which He naturally is like you are also and “I am” also a being that is.

          Jehovah said

          “And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob by the name of God Almighty, but by My name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.” (Exodus 6:3 KJ21)

          “And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram and said unto him, “I am the Almighty God. Walk before Me, and be thou perfect.” (Genesis 17:1 KJ21)

          “And God said unto him, “I am God Almighty. Be fruitful and multiply; a nation and a company of nations shall be of thee, and kings shall come out of thy loins.” (Genesis 35:11 KJ21)

          The Almighty God of Abraham is Jehovah and not Jesus.

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          1. Who is the Visitant with whom Abraham discussed before the destruction of Sodom & Gomorrah? The Bible calls Him LORD with capital letters. Does the One (God the Father) on the throne ever vacate the throne? If He doesn’t who did the Bible call Jehovah in Genesis 18.

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            1. God allowed His Voice to reach others on this earth. He also used messengers to do this which are known as angels. God is omnipresent and does not need to leave His throne to be somewhere or to see something. God knows every heart and can speak to any body. That way we too can receive answers to our prayers, without God having to leave His heavenly surroundings.
              God is Jehovah and that Holy Name should be known all over the world.

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              1. Gen 3:8-12, “And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden.
                Gen 3:9 And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where [art] thou?
                Gen 3:10 And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I [was] naked; and I hid myself.
                Gen 3:11 And he said, Who told thee that thou [wast] naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?” This is a conversation between the LORD (Jehovah) and our pristine parents. The word ‘heard’ is shama` (shaw-mah’) ‘1. to hear intelligently (often with implication of attention, obedience, etc 2. causatively, to tell, etc.)’. Adam and his wife also heard His ‘voice’, the Hebrew of which is qowl (kole) (or qol {kole}) ‘a voice or sound’. They heard the sound of the Visitant’s steps. ‘Walking’ is halak (haw-lak’) ‘to walk (in a great variety of applications, literally) (figuratively, it means: ‘lifestyle’). The LORD did come to meet them every evening, therefore. Now let’s go to Genesis 18. Gen 18:1 “And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;” Gen 18:17 “And the LORD said, Shall I hide from Abraham that thing which I do”. The LORD in verses 1 & 17 are the same – Jehovah. The whole chapter is about a physical encounter between God and Abraham, a man. Gen 18:30 “And he said [unto him], Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak: Peradventure there shall thirty be found there. And he said, I will not do [it], if I find thirty there.” The ‘Lord’ in verse 30 is not Jehovah. It’s ‘Adonay (ad-o-noy’) ‘the Lord (used as a proper name of God only)’. If you’re with me and especially the scripture, then I expect you to understand that Abraham spoke to this Visitant and did address Him as Adonay, used only for Jehovah. Who is the Shepherd in Psalms 23 & 80? Guess who called Himself “THE good shepherd”? John 10:11 “I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.” Am I using the Bible to do extrapolations? So why not agree with my scriptural stand? Christ has been visiting the earth for eons as we see in Micah 5:2 “But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, [though] thou be little among the thousands of Judah, [yet] out of thee shall he come forth unto me [that is] to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth [have been] from of old, from everlasting.” What about the One who called Himself the captain of the host? Joshua 5:14 & 15 “And he said, Nay; but [as] captain of the host of the LORD am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my lord unto his servant?
                15) And the captain of the LORD’S host said unto Joshua, Loose thy shoe from off thy foot; for the place whereon thou standest [is] holy. And Joshua did so.” The ‘lord’ in the 14th is ‘adown (aw-done’) (or (shortened) adon {aw-done’} ‘sovereign, i.e. controller (human or divine)’. Two prominent issues here are: 1. Joshua ‘worshipped’ Him, and ‘worship’ in Hebrew is: shachah (shaw-khaw’) ‘to depress, i.e. prostrate (especially reflexive, in homage to royalty or God).’ 2. Joshua was told to ‘Loose thy shoe from off thy foot; for the place whereon thou standest [is] holy.’ The Bible says that, “And Joshua did so.” Will an Israelite or Joshua especially worship anyone else except Jehovah? Selah!

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                1. We do not understand why you quote the verses from the Genesis which clearly show that man is able to hear God His Voice, like we ourselves do say.

                  also that God is Holy and that His Name is sacred is something we also say, but you seem to take Jesus as that Lord, not seeing or understanding that are two different lords spoken about in the Holy Scriptures. That is one of the major problems when people use a Bible translation in which the proper Name of God is left out and where there are no big and small capitals are used to differentiate between the Most High Lord of lords the Elohim Hashem God and the Lord Jesus or even any other Lord or lord.

                  Joshua and Jesus worshipped the God of Abraham, Jehovah. We never ever insinuated something else. We think you are one of the writers who insinuated that Jesus would be God … not us. We always say and write on our sites that Jesus is the son of God who worshipped the Only One True God, the One Who had sent Jesus and declared Jesus to be His only begotten beloved son.

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                  1. His name is Yeshua Meshiyach i.e. Jesus ben Meshiyach, but is His Father Meshiyach? In a way it is. The truth is both are His names or titles. God is also the Saviour; are there two Saviours? Meshiyach is the Saviour the Israelites have been waiting for. You are probably a Jew or believe in Judaism. Jews do not believe in Jesus, too bad. Rev 1:8, “I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.”
                    Rev 4:8, “And the four beasts had each of them six wings about [him]; and [they were] full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.”
                    Rev 11:15 “And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become [the kingdoms] of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.”
                    Rev 11:16 “And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
                    Rev 11:17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
                    Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.”
                    In these verses Jesus and the Father are described as ‘Almighty’, which the Greek calls pantokrator (pan-tok-rat’-ore) ‘the all-ruling, i.e. God (as absolute and universal sovereign)’. Let’s see what we have in Rev. 15:3,”And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous [are] thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true [are] thy ways, thou King of saints.” Who is the Lamb? He’s called ‘King’ (with capital ‘K’) in the very heavenly assizes. Do you know what that means? I think not! In the first 4 verses the TWO of them receive the epithetic “which is, and which was, and which is to come”. ‘Which is’ or ‘art’ speaks of a One who still exists in the present age of every creation. ‘Which was’ or ‘wast’ signifies eternity past; and, ‘is to come’ or ‘art to come’ means eternity to come. How can Christ be there in the eternity past, still in the present existence and will still be there in the eternity to come, if He does not share foreverness with God, thereby rendering the Hegelian dialectism a falsehood. I’ve given you guys so many Bible verses yet you just don’t see it. Please do make sure what God said of the Israelites is not working against you i.e.Isaiah 6:9, “And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not.” Your Jewish leaning is not helpful. It’s pushing you far away from the One we all have to do. Selah!

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                    1. God is the Most High Saviour, then comes the saviour Jeshua, next may come many other saviours, like parents, fireman, rescuers who are not god nor God, though they may save many lives.

                      Our Jewish learning is the task to follow the teachings brought by the men of God. We do have to follow our patriarch Abraham. Jesus also followed him and praised the god of Abraham. Jesus did not worship himself. He was not a fool to ask himself why he abandoned himself. Jesus asked God (Jehovah) why He had abandoned him (Jeshua/Jesus)

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                    2. Why are you deliberately getting God’s word so mixed up?! You have no respect whatsoever for Jesus at all. How can you type this abominable sacrilege, saying that Jesus is as a saviour as a fireman? You have no idea what you’re insinuating. Jesus laid down His life to save me, you (whether you believe or not), and every human dead, alive or yet to be born. John the Apostle said of John the Baptist in John 1:29 “The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.” Rev 5:8, “And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four [and] twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.” Rev 7:9 “After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
                      Rev 7:10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
                      Rev 7:11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and [about] the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,
                      Rev 7:12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, [be] unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.” How can salvation (of man, by God) be of God and the Lamb? If you choose not to see the truth, Jesus is the TRUTH, you’ll have yourself to blame. The physical Israel is in darkness -spiritual darkness. Born again Christians are the spiritual Israel, which dawned of Peter when Cornelius and his household spoke in tongues. I can see that you sport the supposedly ‘star of David’ as the logo of your blog site. Did David ever adopt any star either for himself or for the Jewish nation, with the capital at Jerusalem? Be careful what you believe in. There is a spirit behind images. God never told the modern Israel to hoist a certain ‘star of David’ or did HE?.

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                    3. Dear Hoojewale, Immanuel Verbondskind may have a Jewish background or write from his Jewish viewpoint but we are true Christians, believing in Jesus Christ being the Messiah and being the sent one from God in whom the present and future generation shall have to believe that he is the Way to God and the Way to the Kingdom of God.

                      As true followers of the master teacher Jesus we follow his teachings, and not human doctrines, and as such believe in him to be the son of God and not to be a god son, but him like us to have only One True God, the God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, who is also the God of Jesus Christ, the Jews and the Muslims.

                      We notice you using a Bible translation with only “Lord” written in one way and not as LORD and Lord and lord, so that you dare not able to see about which lord is being spoken. That is a general problem with Bibles which have omitted the Name of God where it was present in the original Scriptures.
                      We do understand that you might have difficulties in understanding the Word of God in this way. but we advice you just to take the words like they are written black on white and then you too should come to see clear.

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                    4. I use the King James Version, the Authorized Version. Now I can see that you’re just not following me at all. In Genesis 18 the first LORD is Jehovah. The Lord in the 30th verse is ‘Adonay. You’ve not been reading my comments with an open mind. I’ve raised so many scriptural issues concerning the true Person of Jesus. You just pretend as if you did not see them, too bad. You do not use the scriptures in your comments rather you talk about what you believe. It’s not really what you believe. It’s what the Bible teaches. Jews are still angry with Jesus. They were ready to stone Him to death. For what reason? He called Himself the Son of God, using the highest form of sonship, huios. A huios is traditionally equal to his father. They got angry and said, “Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God” (John 5:18). All Christians form a mystical body of Jesus. He was not an angel, He is the pantokrator (the Almighty Revelation 1:8). If this alone cannot make you start thinking about the most enigmatic Personage, then you don’t care what the Bible is saying about this Man. I did not caption my blog site, “Showing the true word of God” for nothing. Please do yourself a favour and go through all my comments and if possible my posts. I use the true word of scripture, explaining the Hebrew and Greek to teach the Bible. Did you say the god Muslims of the Qur’an is Jehovah? Their god is Allah. You’ll not find Jehovah or Jerusalem in their holy book.

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                    5. The Adonai, Elohim and most High is God Who is one according to the Scriptures.

                      Why should Jews be angry with Jesus. Jesus is a Jew who even came from a very close sect or specific very devout group of Jews the Essenes. Like all Jews Jesus worshipped only One God, the God of Abraham.

                      The God spoken of in the Bible is called to be “One”. Hebrew for “one” or “echad” means just “one.” Echad, like “one” in English, can modify any noun in the universe. As such we can speak about one nose, one shoe, one person, one animal or one zebra. The word means one and not more than one. “One zebra” does not mean that one means black and white, and “one tripod” does not mean that one means three.
                      Of course it can modify a collective noun, like “one family”. As such it concerns really one family which could be existing of more than one person, but making only one family.

                      It also can be expressing one is the same in thought. Of the family all those family members may be one. That does not mean they are all one and the same person or that each member is a part-person of one person. the father and mother in the family have to be one to educate their children in the right way, but that does not mean they are one and the same person or that the woman is the man and vice versa.
                      The pupils have to be one with their mentor, though nobody is going to think that each pupil is one part of a multiheaded teacher.

                      Christians are also required to become one with Christ and one with God. According to many Christians their way of thinking this would mean that Christians become Jesus and as such also become to be God.

                      An other language fault you seem to make is concerning Allah. In our language and in many languages it means god. If you would have listened to the Pope, who is the head of the Catholics he talked and talks also about Allah when he talks about God. I must confess he says also that Jesus is Allah, which Jews and Muslims never would accept, and real Christians following rabbi Jeshua also never should have to accept because they should follow the teachings of Jesus Christ who clearly worshipped Allah, the Only One True God, the Elohim Hashem Jehovah.

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                    6. When Jesus said, “Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy (Matt 5:43)”, He actually hit at the Essenes, one of the four religious groups into which Judaism got divided. He was never a member of any monastic brotherhood. Where did you get that?

                      Allah means ‘the god’, one of the 360 idols of the Quraysh people of Mohammed. An excavation revealed that he was a ‘moon god’ Allah. Our Christian God is Yahweh or Jehovah, the covenant name He gave us. Yahweh is quite different from the Quranic Allah.

                      As for the Pope, he leads Catholicism (the biggest religious fraud on earth)! He is not a Christian. Read my posts on religion e.g. “The Star and the Crescent” among others.

                      Tell me? Why would Jesus call Himself what solely should be a preserve of God alone in Matt 12:8 “For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.” The word ‘Lord’ would be appreciated when you study Exod 16:23 “And he said unto them, This [is that] which the LORD hath said, To morrow [is] the rest of the holy sabbath unto the LORD: bake [that] which ye will bake [to day], and seethe that ye will seethe; and that which remaineth over lay up for you to be kept until the morning.” The ‘Lord’ of Exodus is Jehovah. So, if He calls Himself the ‘Lord of Sabbath’ what does that make Him. As a Jew, who’ll love to hold unto his Jewish beliefs, I know you are not ready to believe the truth. Jesus is the TRUTH! AMEN! Get to understand John 3:3. I did it several years ago.

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                    7. In our language “Allah” is just the word used or pronounced to denote an important person (like Pharaoh is called a god or allah) or the word used to speak about the Most High God (than used with a capital), for which following words are used in our region: “Allah”, “God”, “G’d”, “Gott”, “G’tt”, “Heere heere”, “Here”, “Here God”, “Heer”, “Eene”, “Ene”, “Enige” (last two titles clearly indicating it is about “the One Who is One”), ” Gott der Herr”, “Dieu”, “le Seigneur Dieu”, just to mention the official languages of the country, whilst many other languages are also spoken here which even use other words for that title Hoojewale seem to like to force on others to use that english word instead of using the natural or original word of their own language group.

                      Hoojewally must remember that “allah” is a title and that the Name of the Only One True God is Jehovah (which most English people pronounce differently than we do) but is the God of Israel who is Only One and no Trinity like he tries to imply would be written in Scriptures, but is no where indicated as such.
                      ‘יהוה Elohim of our fathers, the Elohim of Aḇraham, the Elohim of Yitsḥaq, and the Elohim of Yaʽaqoḇ, is Jehovah and not Jeshua. The truth is what the bible says and the Scriptures declares rabbi Jeshua to be the sent one from God and never tells the world that he would be God.

                      Concerning the word Lord you seem to forget that it is the one who is master or is allowed to be master of something. As such there are landlord and other lords which are not God.

                      God is Lord over everything. He is even Lord of the Lord of lords or the Host of hosts.

                      John 3:3 (TS2009) says:
                      3 יהושע answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born from above, he is unable to see (a) the reign of Elohim.” Footnote: (a) Or perceive.

                      But it seems you still did not get to see Who has sent Jeshua, the one who is born from above and knows the reign of the Most High which is not his reign.

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                    8. Rather than ask so many questions why don’t you give answers to the points I’ve raised? We’re not playing yoyo toy in turns are we? Please answer these issues I raised in the last comment which goes thus:

                      “Tell me? Why would Jesus call Himself what solely should be a preserve of God alone in Matt 12:8 “For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.” The word ‘Lord’ would be appreciated when you study Exod 16:23 “And he said unto them, This [is that] which the LORD hath said, To morrow [is] the rest of the holy sabbath unto the LORD: bake [that] which ye will bake [to day], and seethe that ye will seethe; and that which remaineth over lay up for you to be kept until the morning.” The ‘Lord’ of Exodus is Jehovah. So, if He calls Himself the ‘Lord of Sabbath’ what does that make Him. As a Jew, who’ll love to hold unto his Jewish beliefs, I know you are not ready to believe the truth. Jesus is the TRUTH! AMEN! Get to understand John 3:3. I did it several years ago.” Dear Immanuel, please let’s treat God’s word and not our opinionated beliefs. Do that and you’ll make my day. Thank you.

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                    9. I gave an answer concerning the word Lord. I’ll add: Jesus was given authority by his heavenly Father. You also seem to forget that Jesus was blameless and that Matthew refers to that blamelessness also saying “” You also seemto forget that Jesus has become the high-priest and that all believers are a “royal priesthood” and fall under that lord or master given by God, so that they are exempt from one day Sabbath keeping.

                      Like the lord or king David, Jesus was a lord or high placed person (a god) who resolved that by the Lord’s assisting grace (like David said in his Psalms) that as a saint of God, Jesus fulfilled his vows like the lord David did, continuing the work of sacrificing the flesh and its interests, that the descendants of David, the People of Israel and the followers of the one who came from the tribe of King David may attain to the heavenly inheritance in joint-heirship with their redeemer sent by God.

                      God did not not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of His lips. (Psalm 89:34) Jesus came to bring the words of his heavenly Father, the words of Jehovah God which should be very comforting and satisfying to his faithful children. As faith becomes a basis for things hoped for, so confidence and experience constitute a basis for faith to rest upon. Jesus the sent one is the appointed one from god. As such Jesus as appointed lord brings us assurance that as God has been strict and unchangeable in regard to the penalty pronounced, he will be equally strict and equally unchangeable concerning all the good promises and covenants which he has made to us. With Jesus the Word of God came into fulfilment, becoming in the flesh, bringing us salvation form all slavery, from the slavery of the death, from the slavery of the Law, from the slavery of tradition, from the slavery of institutions (synagogues, temples, churches).

                      The justifying, forgiving grace of God brought us the Messiah, the appointed lord by the Most High Lord over Lord of lords.

                      The prophets of old proclaimed this hope. The apostles of the church age applied it to us today. “I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more” (Jeremiah 31:34; also in Hebrew 8:12).

                      We have now the lord Jesus, not to have him as our god, but to have him as the mediator between God and man.

                      1 Timothy 2:5 The Scriptures 1998+ (5) For there is one Elohim,1 and one Mediator between Elohim and men, the Man Messiah יהושע {Jeshua}, Footnote: 11 Cor. 8:6, Eph. 4:6, Mk. 12:29-34.

                      In this verse you can clearly see that there is the Only One (Jehovah) and next to that One there is the other one (Jesus)

                      Hebrews 3:1 The Scriptures 1998+ (1) Therefore, set-apart brothers, partakers of the heavenly calling, closely consider the Emissary and High Priest of our confession, Messiah יהושע {Jeshua},
                      Hebrews 6:20 The Scriptures 1998+ (20) where יהושע {Jeshua} has entered as a forerunner for us, having become High Priest forever according to the order of Malkitseḏeq.

                      We are asked by Jesus to come to believe in the one who sent him (Jehovah) and have to believe that he (Jesus) as the sent one from God received the authority from God to be lord or master and even to become the advocate (or mediator) and judge (at the end of times)

                      James 2:1 The Scriptures 1998+ (1) My brothers, do not hold the belief of our Master יהושע {Jeshua} Messiah, the Master of esteem, with partiality.
                      Not forgetting that there are many gods and many lords we should come to believe in that lord the Most High Lord has given.

                      1 Corinthians 8:5-6 The Scriptures 1998+ (5) For even if there are so-called mighty ones, whether in heaven or on earth – as there are many mighty ones and many masters – (6) for us there is one Elohim,1 the Father, from whom all came and for whom we live, and one Master יהושע {Jeshua} Messiah, through whom all came and through whom we live. Footnote: 1Eph. 4:6, 1 Tim. 2:5, Mk. 12:32,34.

                      If you do not believe what is written in the Bible of what those and our Scriptures say, please do compare the given quotes with what your Bible translation says.

                      But according to us all people should come to believe in the sent one from God. You still do not believe Jesus is the sent one from God, because you consider him to be God incarnate. You also do not seem to believe that he is a man of flesh, bones and blood and not a spirit, like Jesus himself says. God is spirit we are told but Jesus clearly says he is no spirit. When he would be God he should have all qualities or attributes of God, i.e. all knowing, able to be everywhere, not able to die, being eternal, not able to be tempted, not able to sin, all things he was not. Jesus could sin but did not. Jesus could follow his own will which he did not. He did not his own will but the Will of his heavenly Father. If Jesus is God he always would have done his own will and then he could not ask himself why he would have abandoned himself.

                      Luke 24:39 The Scriptures 1998+ (39) “See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself. Handle Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have.”

                      John 4:24-25 The Scriptures 1998+ (24) “Elohim is Spirit, and those who worship Him need to worship in spirit and truth.” (25) The woman said to Him, “I know that Messiah is coming, the One who is called Anointed. When that One comes, He shall announce to us all.”

                      You should come to believe that announcer and should have to believe that One Who sent him (Jesus).

                      Listen to this fragment from that lord his preaching

                      The Authority of the Son
                      Joh 5:19 Therefore יהושע responded and said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son is able to do none at all by Himself, but only that which He sees the Father doing, because whatever He does, the Son also likewise does.
                      Joh 5:20 “For the Father loves the Son, and shows Him all that He Himself does. And greater works than these He is going to show Him, in order that you marvel.
                      Joh 5:21 “For as the Father raises the dead and makes alive, even so the Son makes alive whom He wishes.
                      Joh 5:22 “For the Father judges no one, but has given all the judgment to the Son,
                      Joh 5:23 that all should value the Son even as they value the Father. He who does not value the Son does not value the Father who sent Him.
                      Joh 5:24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me possesses everlasting life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.
                      Joh 5:25 “Truly, truly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of Elohim. And those having heard shall live.
                      Joh 5:26 “For as the Father possesses life in Himself, so He gave also to the Son to possess life in Himself,
                      Joh 5:27 and He has given Him authority also to do judgment, because He is the Son of Aḏam.
                      Joh 5:28 “Do not marvel at this, because the hour is coming in which all those in the tombs shall hear His voice,
                      Joh 5:29 and shall come forth – those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have practised evil matters, to a resurrection of judgment.

                      Look especially at phrases or verses 24-25 telling us that those who believe in the Elohim and in the sent one from the Adonai shall have eternal life in the sense that we can live now the kind of life which we will eternally live in God’s Kingdom. We will die, be unconscious, but be raised to stand before Jesus at His return, to be judged by him and by His grace live eternally in God’s Kingdom on earth.

                      You ask me to come to the truth, but you yourself still does not believe the words Jesus says, though we are told Jesus was without sin and as such did not tell lies.
                      You say I opionate words but I listen to what Scripture tells me. The above quotes are very clear who Jesus is and what he means for mankind.

                      I believe Jesus when he confesses not being able to do anything without his heavenly Father Who is greater than him. In case Jesus would be God he is the Greatest and would he be able to do everything.

                      You do not seem to believe that Jesus got the truth from his heavenly Father Who should also be our god like He was the god of Christ Jesus.

                      John 8:40-45 The Scriptures 1998+ (40) “But now you seek to kill Me, a Man who has spoken to you the truth which I heard from Elohim. Ab_raham did not do this. (41) “You do the works of your father.” Then they said to Him, “We were not born of whoring, we have one Father: Elohim.” (42) יהושע {Jeshua} said to them, “If Elohim were your Father, you would love Me, for I came forth from Elohim, and am here. For I have not come of Myself, but He sent Me. (43) “Why do you not know what I say? Because you are unable to hear My Word. (44) “You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you wish to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and has not stood in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks the lie, he speaks of his own, for he is a liar and the father of it. (45) “And because I speak the truth, you do not believe Me.

                      Please do come to believe what Jesus says and come to believe in him, being the Messiah.

                      My ancestors had a hope. We have seen many who were troubled, incarnated, gassed, but kept believing that Jehovah would provide. And He, the Most High Provided. He offered us a redeemer. He sent one who knew God was and is greater than him to whom he was allowed to go.

                      John 14:28 The Scriptures 1998+ (28) “You heard that I said to you, ‘I am going away and I am coming to you.’ If you did love Me, you would have rejoiced that I said, ‘I am going to the Father,’ for My Father is greater than I.

                      He is now by his heavenly Father, not sitting on the throne of God but at God’s right hand, which you still not seem to accept, but I want to believe not because of philosophies but because the Scriptures tell me clearly.

                      Matthew 26:64 The Scriptures 1998+ (64) יהושע {Jeshua} said to him, “You have said it. Besides I say to you, from now you shall see the Son of Adam sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming on the clouds of the heaven.”

                      I dare to look forward to that moment Jeshua shall return to be a lord speaking and judging in the Name of the Most High.

                      I have repented and still do repented of my sins and call upon the name of the Lord, believing it that we were forgiven and justified, declared not guilty and righteous in His sight.

                      Yes, even faith does not source in man. Jesus is “the author and finisher of our faith” (Hebrew 12:2). When we believed upon the Lord Jesus, it was in response to an authoring, revealing work that He was doing on our behalf. Jesus manifested Himself to us through the gospel as One who was able to save us sinners. The Holy Spirit was convicting us of our need. by the Holy Spirit, the Power of God, Jesus was placed in the womb of the young girl Miriam. Like the apostles trusted in Jesus his saving work for them I also came to believe the Jeshua is the chosen one from God, the prophet and master teacher given to mankind to bring the solution about which god spoke in the garden of Eden (long before Abraham was born).

                      Thereby, like Jeshua (Jesus) authored faith in his disciples I believe he (Jesus) can do that also to me and you, when we are willing to believe in him and accept him for what and who he is. I sincerely hope your eyes one moment shall become opened and you shall come to see the Truth about which you speak so much that I should find. I have found Christ, but you still not seem to have found the real Christ, like many of the People of Israel still not have done. You like them seem still blind for the Biblical truth. though I do know that there is hope for my family members, you and other goyim. I shall pray that you as a gentile may also come to get to know the Only One True God and His Lamb who was slain to receive power and riches and wisdom, and strength and honour and glory and blessing. (Revelation of the apostle John 5:12).

                      The grace of God of which many people already partook for new birth and justification is the same grace that must continually be at work in us for growth and sanctification.

                      That I, you and the readers who come along this site, might grow daily in a life of sanctification, whilst looking for the Messiah and for putting all their hope in the Grace God has given and for the Work This Only One True God has done in the past and still shall do in the future to bring peace all over the universe, making the promise of the Holy Land not only a reality for the People of Israel (the Jews) but also for you and those who did not belong toe the Jewish people.

                      Your day will be made when I believe that Jesus is the Truth, well I believe in Jesus to be the sent one from God and him to be our long awaited Messiah. I do hope you one day shall also come to believe that, so that not only my day will be made good, but so that my God, the God of Israel, the God of Abraham but also of Jesus and his disciples and followers, shall become your God too and shall be pleased you were willing to accept Him as your god and the god of the Messiah Who has offered the grace brought by His only begotten son Jesus Christ.

                      Please come to believe the Most High Elohim Hashem Jehovah Who said:
                      ““You are My Son, the Beloved, only begotten, in You I did delight.”” (Luke 3:22)

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                    10. I do not like prevaricating arguments at all. I asked you to tell me why Abraham will use ‘Lord’ which is used for none than the Jehovah of Israel. The first ‘LORD’ of ‘LORD God’ in Genesis 18 is the Hebrew ‘Jehovah’. Along their discussion in verses 3, 27, 30, & 31 Abraham called the Visitant Adonay, which is used only for YHWH. In verses 13, 14, 17, 20, 26 and verse 33, which points out that, “And the LORD went his way, as soon as he had left communing with Abraham: and Abraham returned unto his place.” Please if you cannot explain this I’ll understand. Why would Abraham refer to a palpable being as Jehovah which none dares bare? You can simply tell me, “I don’t understand”? And I”ll understand. Jehovah means ‘a self-existing one’. How many gainsayers of an existence of an all-powerful, undying Creator will not laugh one to scorn, hearing that?

                      You just don’t see the weightiness of Mark 2:28, “Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.” How can’t you see that the Greek uses the same ‘kurios’ for adon, Adonay and Jehovah? If a Personage, in human form is called Adonay, and Jesus calls Himself the “Lord of sabbath”, does He not take one all the way to Genesis, where He created the seventh, Sabbath day? I’m quoting scripture. If you do not see it, then you just don’t want to see it. One day we’ll show up in heaven and come face to face with the biblical truth, the same way Abraham stood ‘before’ Jehovah in Genesis 18:22. ‘Before’ is paniym (paw-neem’) (plural (but always as singular) of an unused noun (paneh {paw-neh’}) n-m.
                      1. the face (as the part that turns)
                      2. (with prepositional prefix, as a preposition) before, etc.
                      {used in a great variety of applications, literally and figuratively}.’ “Abraham,” Jesus once told His hearers, “saw my day and he was glad.” Abraham saw Him and used the perfect name for Him, with whom we all have to do. Amen! Like I’ve reiterated, if you do not understand these scriptural truisms, I’ll understand.

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                    11. Where did Abraham use the word Lord? You give verses but no book. In Genesis 18 Moses let us hear what Abraham said:

                      Exodus 20:3 (TS2009)
                      3 “You have no other mighty ones against My face.
                      Genesis 18:27-31 (TS2009)
                      27 And Aḇraham answered and said, “Look, please, I who am but dust and ashes have taken it upon myself to speak to יהוה, 28 “Suppose there are five less than the fifty righteous, would You destroy all of the city for lack of five?” And He said, “If I find there forty-five, I do not destroy it.” 29 And he spoke to Him yet again and said, “Suppose there are found forty?” And He said, “I would not do it for the sake of forty.” 30 And he said, “Let not יהוה be displeased, and let me speak: Suppose there are found thirty?” And He said, “I would not do it if I find thirty there.” 31 And he said, “Look, please, I have taken it upon myself to speak to יהוה: Suppose there are found twenty?” And He said, “I would not destroy it for the sake of twenty.”

                      Genesis 18:13-14 (TS2009)
                      13 And יהוה said to Aḇraham, “Why did Sarah laugh, saying, ‘Shall I truly have a child, since I am old?’ 14 “Is any matter too hard for יהוה? At the appointed time I am going to return to you, according to the time of life, and Sarah is to have a son.”

                      Jehovah is a lord, like your boss is a lord and you have many lords in the House of lords. Being a lord does not mean to be God. The Host of host or Lord of the lord of lords is Jehovah,whilst His only begotten son is a lord of lords. (Like I already explained in a previous reply).

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                    12. Genesis 18:1 “And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;” who is this LORD?

                      Gen 18:3 “And said, My Lord, if now I have found favour in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant:” the Lord here is Adonay, who’s this?

                      Gen 18:13 “And the LORD said unto Abraham, Wherefore did Sarah laugh, saying, Shall I of a surety bear a child, which am old?” Who’s this Jehovah, eating food with them?

                      Gen 18:17 “And the LORD said, Shall I hide from Abraham that thing which I do;” Who is saying this of Abraham, was He physically present with Abraham or not?

                      Gen 18:20 & 21, “And the LORD said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous; (21) I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know.”
                      ” who’s this One discussing with Abraham?

                      Gen 18:22 “And the men turned their faces from thence, and went toward Sodom: but Abraham stood yet before the LORD.” Who are men who went to Sodom and who is the Jehovah Abraham stood before, not forgetting that the word ‘before’ is the Hebrew word paniym (paw-neem’) (plural (but always as singular) of an unused noun (paneh {paw-neh’})
                      1. the face (as the part that turns)
                      2. (with prepositional prefix, as a preposition) before, etc.
                      {used in a great variety of applications, literally and figuratively}? Abraham most definitely stood before this Visitant and you don’t believe, see or agree with this I’ll understand.

                      Gen 18:23-25 “And Abraham drew near, and said, Wilt thou also destroy the righteous with the wicked?
                      (24) Peradventure there be fifty righteous within the city: wilt thou also destroy and not spare the place for the fifty righteous that [are] therein?
                      (25) That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked: and that the righteous should be as the wicked, that be far from thee: Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?” Was Abraham soliloquizing here?

                      Gen 18:26 “And the LORD said, If I find in Sodom fifty righteous within the city, then I will spare all the place for their sakes.” Who’s this palpable LORD answering an earthly Abraham?

                      Gen 18:27 “And Abraham answered and said, Behold now, I have taken upon me to speak unto the Lord, which [am but] dust and ashes:” The Lord in this verse is Adonay, the personal name of Jehovah.

                      Gen 18:32-33, “And he said, Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak yet but this once: Peradventure ten shall be found there. And he said, I will not destroy [it] for ten’s sake.
                      (33) And the LORD went his way, as soon as he had left communing with Abraham: and Abraham returned unto his place.” Is the Lord (Adonay) and the LORD (Jehovah) of verses 32 & 33 not referring to the same Personage, who appeared to Abraham.

                      Jehovah does not vacate His throne, we know, so, how come someone is sharing this covenant name when we also know that God does not share His glory?

                      Please do comment specifically on Genesis 18 and nothing else. Just tell me who this Lord or LORD is. Thank you.

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                    13. You see you can’t answer the question as the verses of Genesis scripture presents it. Like I said, I understand where you’re coming from. Abraham called the Visitant Adonay. Verse one says Jehovah appeared to Abraham. If you don’t understand this, I, H.O. do understand. We take our teachings strictly from the infallible Bible.

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                    14. It was Jehovah Who presented Himself to Abraham not Jesus …. that is the whole point … you not wanting to believe the Words of Scriptures and wanting to put everywhere Jesus instead of Jehovah, placing your false god in the place of Abraham’s God.

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                    15. If Jehovah goes visiting people, does it mean that He does vacate the celestial throne? He doesn’t, so, who makes a physical appearance of Divinity to humans, who? Show me the scriptures.

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                    16. Angels and other messengers, like prophets where send to bring messages of God. There are loads of examples.

                      Of appearances in one or the other form you might a.o. find Ge 12.7; Ex3.16; 16.10; De 31.5; Re 22.6; Mal 3.1; Mat 11.10.

                      There are stories over donkeys talking, a man in a whale, etc. Because you do not seem to know those stories I advice you to go and talk with a priest or minister, who can tell you more about such figures which brought words of God to certain people.

                      You may already start with the verses I have given … because you think I am never able to give you any verses of Scriptures I do hope these ware already helpful.

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                    17. I’m sure you know who is the ‘mighty God’ in Deut 7:21 “Thou shalt not be affrighted at them: for the LORD thy God [is] among you, a mighty God and terrible”?
                      No doubt the ‘mighty God’ in Isaiah 9:6 “For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace;” is also known to you. Why would both Jehovah and the promised Messiah (Jesus) be titled ‘mighty God’? Food for thought! It’s all in the Bible! Amen!

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                    18. There have also been others called mighty gods thought hey are Not The Most High Almighty God of gods or Host of hosts.

                      You also seem to forget God is only One and that He Himself says there should only be one god praised.
                      For sure you do not worship the God of Israel Which is a Spirit and the Only One True God. Abraham never worshipped a trinitarian god, nor did Isiaah or any other Jewish prophet.

                      I also could say it is all in the Bible and it seems you yourself are not believing the Word God has spoken wan the God Who does not tell lies Who has said: “This is my only begotten son.” (Luke 3.21-23)

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                    19. (1) Deut 10:17 “For the LORD your God [is] God of gods, and Lord of lords, a great God, a mighty, and a terrible, which regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward:”
                      (2) 1Sam 4:8 “Woe unto us! who shall deliver us out of the hand of these mighty Gods? these [are] the Gods that smote the Egyptians with all the plagues in the wilderness.”
                      (3) Ps 82:1 A Psalm of Asaph. “God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.” Who are the other mighty gods apart from Jehovah Elohiym? Show me scriptures.

                      Does the One of Revelation 4:2 (And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and [one] sat on the throne) ever vacates the throne? Please just be kind enough to show me scriptural proofs. Do you believe the Holy Spirit is a Personage? Who or what is He?

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                    20. Strange that you keep giving me verses which are very clear for me and just confirm what I am saying that Jehovah is the Most High God, though you claim Jesus is God.

                      That I remember I have already given proof of Scripture Who God says He is and who He says Jesus is. But you do not seem to read those replies.

                      I once more give some sayings from Scripture which are very clear

                      Genesis 18:14 (TS98)
                      14 “Is any matter too hard for יהוה? At the appointed time I am going to return to you, according to the time of life, and Sarah is to have a son.”

                      Exodus 6:3 (TS98)
                      3 “And I appeared to Aḇraham, to Yitsḥaq, and to Ya῾aqoḇ, as Ěl Shaddai. And by My Name, יהוה, was I not known to them?

                      Deuteronomy 6:3-4 (TS2009)
                      3 “And you shall hear, O Yisra’ĕl, and shall guard to do, that it might be well with you, and that you increase greatly as יהוה Elohim of your fathers has spoken to you, in a land flowing with milk and honey. 4 “Hear, O Yisra’ĕl: יהוה our Elohim, יהוה is one!

                      You see God is clearly saying He is One and not two or three or more.

                      Also the apostle are clear in this matter saying that for them there is also only one God and next to that God they have the master rabbi Jeshua, the Kristos or Christ.

                      1 Corinthians 8:6 (TS2009)
                      6 for us there is one Elohim,a the Father, from whom all came and for whom we live, and one Master יהושע Messiah, through whom all came and through whom we live. Footnote: aEph 4:6, 1Ti 2:5, Mar 12:32, Mar 12:34.

                      John 4:23-24 (TS2009)
                      23 “But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father also does seek such to worship Him. 24 “Elohim is Spirit, and those who worship Him need to worship in spirit and truth.”

                      God never said He was coming down to earth but clearly told the world that Jesus was the sent one and His only begotten son.

                      Jeremiah 23:5-6 (TS2009)
                      5 “See, the days are coming,” declares יהוה, “when I shall raise for Dawiḏ a Branchc of righteousness, and a Sovereign shall reign and act wisely, and shall do right-ruling and righteousness in the earth. Footnote: cOr Sprout. 6 “In His days Yehuḏah shall be saved, and Yisra’ĕl dwell safely. And this is His Name whereby He shall be called: ‘יהוה our Righteousness.’

                      Galatians 4:3-7 (TS2009)
                      3 So we also, when we were children, were under the elementary matters of the world, being enslaved. 4 But when the completion of the time came, Elohim sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under Torah, 5 to redeem those who were under Torah, in order to receive the adoption as sons. 6 And because you are sons, Elohim has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying, “Abba, Father!” 7 So you are no longer a slave but a son, and if a son, also an heir of Elohim through Messiah.

                      Luke 1:30-35 (TS2009)
                      30 And the messenger said to her, “Do not be afraid, Miryam, for you have found favour with Elohim. 31 “And see, you shall conceive in your womb, and shall give birth to a Son, and call His Name יהושע.a Footnote: aSee Mat 1:21. 32 “He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Most High. And יהוה Elohim shall give Him the throne of His father Dawiḏ. 33 “And He shall reign over the house of Ya‛aqoḇ forever, and there shall be no end to His reign.”b Footnote: bSee Psa 2:1-12, Psa 89:14-34, Isa 9:7, Isa 16:5, Jer 23:3-6, Jer 30:9, Eze 37:24, Dan 2:44, Dan 7:18-27, Mic 5:2-4, Act 1:6-7, Rev 11:15. 34 And Miryam said to the messenger, “How shall this be, since I do not know a man?” 35 And the messenger answering, said to her, “The Set-apart Spirit shall come upon you, and the power of the Most High shall overshadow you. And for that reason the Set-apart One born of you shall be called: Son of Elohim.

                      Luke 3:21-23 (TS2009)
                      21 And it came to be, when all the people were immersed, יהושע also being immersed, and praying, the heaven was opened, 22 and the Set-apart Spirit descended in bodily form like a dove upon Him, and a voice came from heaven saying, “You are My Son, the Beloved, in You I did delight.” 23 And when יהושע Himself began, He was about thirty years of age, being, as reckoned by law, son of Yosĕph, of Ěli,

                      Why are you so stubborn and keep ignoring those Words of God? You do not have to believe me but you should believe the Words of the Most High Jehovah God.

                      Here I gave you enough verses to listen at and to think about. They are straight forward, there is no philosophy around them. black on white they say that Jehovah is One and that Jesus is His only begotten beloved son.

                      And when not believing it that Jesus is the sent one from God and not God himself, please listen to those verses:

                      Matthew 3:13-17 (TS2009)
                      13 Then יהושע came from Galil to Yoḥanan at the Yardĕn to be immersed by him. 14 But Yoḥanan was hindering Him, saying, “I need to be immersed by You, and You come to me?” 15 But יהושע answering, said to him, “Permit it now, for thus it is fitting for us to fill all righteousness.” Then he permitted Him. 16 And having been immersed, יהושע went up immediately from the water, and see, the heavens were opened, and He saw the Spirit of Elohim descending like a dove and coming upon Him, 17 and see, a voice out of the heavens, saying, “This is My Son, the Beloved, in whom I delight.”

                      John 8:42 (TS2009)
                      42 יהושע said to them, “If Elohim were your Father, you would love Me, for I came forth from Elohim, and am here. For I have not come of Myself, but He sent Me.

                      John 5:43 (TS2009)
                      43 “I have come in My Father’s Name and you do not receive Me, if another comes in his own name, him you would receive.

                      John 3:16 (TS2009)
                      16 “For Elohim so loved the world that He gave His only brought-forth Son, so that everyone who believes in Him should not perish but possess everlasting life.

                      1 John 5:1 (TS2009)

                      1 John 5
                      1 Everyone who believes that יהושע is the Messiah has been born of Elohim, and everyone who loves the One bringing forth also loves the one having been born of Him.

                      Please come to believe that Jeshua the Messiah is born out of the tribe of David and is the sent one from God who can bring salvation to you and to all people on earth.

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                    21. Dear Guestspeaker and Hoojewale, too many Christians do forget that Jesus was a Jew and followed the Jewish teachings. As an Essene, living in a very devout family, his earthly mother and father took care he had a good education and good religious formation. (This may come to a surprse to trinitarian Christians, because Godis omniscient which means he knows everything, though Jesus had to learn everything and even did not know when he would come back or who would be seated next to him – or when he is God he told lies — but that would again be in contradiction to the word of Scriptures because therein is written that God does not tell lies and that Jesus did not sin and as such would also not have told lies.)

                      Jesus like his parents did worship God and not himself. Jesus also told others not to thank him for the miracles he did, because he could not do them without his heavenly Father the Only God to who we should pray “Our Father”.

                      Lots of Christians do seem to forget that Jesus as Jew worship the God of Abraham, which has never been a three-headed person or a god of three gods or trinity.

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                    22. Dear hoojewale, you say “Did you say the god Muslims of the Qur’an is Jehovah? Their god is Allah. You’ll not find Jehovah or Jerusalem in their holy book. ” Allah is God and Muslims should have no excuse not knowing God’s Name, which is Jehovah.

                      The Qu’ran mentions the older works, like the Law and Prophets, of the Holy Scriptures often and emphasises that they contain God’s guidance. We read at Al’Imran [3]:3,4 NJD: “He has revealed to you the book with the truth, confirming the scriptures which preceded it; for He has already revealed the Torah and the Injil for the guidance of men” (see also Al-Mai’idah [5]:46,47)

                      In our Holy Scriptures you may find that Allah, “the [true] God, Jehovah, has said, the Creator of the heavens and the Grand One stretching them out; the One laying out the earth and its produce, the One giving breath to the people on it, and spirit to those walking in it (verse5) and speaks in verse 8 انا الرب هذا اسمي ومجدي لا اعطيه لآخر ولا تسبيحي للمنحوتات.

                      “I am Jehovah. That is my name; and to no one else shall I give my own glory, neither my praise to graven images.

                      and in our Holy Scriptures is written
                      7 لا تنطق باسم الرب الهك باطلا لان الرب لا يبرئ من نطق باسمه باطلا.

                      7 “You must not take up the name of Jehovah your God in a worthless way, for Jehovah will not leave the one unpunished who takes up his name in a worthless way. (Exodus 20:7)

                      So you can see no Muslim shall be allowed to take up Allah’s Name the wrong way. Allah tells us what is His Name
                      2 ثم كلم الله موسى وقال له انا الرب.
                      3 وانا ظهرت لابراهيم واسحق ويعقوب باني الاله القادر على كل شيء.واما باسمي يهوه فلم أعرف عندهم.

                      2 And Allah went on to speak to Moses and to say to him: “I am Jehovah. 3 And I used to appear to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob as God Almighty, but as respects my name Jehovah I did not make myself known to them. (Exodus 6:2-3)

                      hoojewale you do seem to forget that Allah is not a name but a title. Allah means god or God and is used by Catholics, Protestants Muslims and Jews in many countries and is the main word for god in many languages. In your language the title for Allah may be God, but in other languages it may be Dieu, Zot, Got or something else, and also Allah.

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                2. The Voice of God has been around from the beginning. By the Word of God, the Elohim His speaking everything came into being, but by His speaking God reaches people, still today. It is the Spirit of God Which can reach many all over the world, though man cannot see God and live.

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                  1. Really? Exod 33:19 “And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the LORD before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy.
                    Exod 33:20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.
                    Exod 33:21 And the LORD said, Behold, [there is] a place by me, and thou shalt stand upon a rock:
                    Exod 33:22 And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a clift of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by:
                    Exod 33:23 And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen.” I hope you don’t have a private interpretations for the above verses. Exod 34:5 “And the LORD descended in the cloud, and stood with him there, and proclaimed the name of the LORD.
                    Exod 34:6 And the LORD passed by before him, and proclaimed, The LORD, The LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth,
                    Exod 34:7 Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear [the guilty]; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children’s children, unto the third and to the fourth [generation].
                    Exod 34:8 And Moses made haste, and bowed his head toward the earth, and worshipped.
                    Exod 34:9 And he said, If now I have found grace in thy sight, O Lord, let my Lord, I pray thee, go among us; for it [is] a stiffnecked people; and pardon our iniquity and our sin, and take us for thine inheritance.” Who did Moses see? Who did Adam the male and female see in the garden of Eden every cool of the day? The face of Moses change from thence on. Remember? Your Judaistic, Kabbalistic spiritual inclination is impeding a sound scriptural apprehension.

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                    1. You yourself quote bible parts but do not seem to get it? “Exod 33:20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.” God cannot be seen, but Jesus was seen by many, who did not fall death. There where even persons who came to live when Jesus called them back to this life.

                      Those people did not see The God but got to see a presence or got a feeling of that presence. (Like the burning bush = not a person)

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                    2. That’s why Moses saw God’s back. If you’ll read the scripture well you’ll find out that Moses did see HIS back side. Whose back side did Moses see? Was it a ghost’s or an angel’s? Your answer must correspond with scripture. Who is Adonay? Abraham saw HIM and he was glad. Do you know. It’s all in the Bible.

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    3. Where does it say Yeshua is the Elohim?

      In case he would be, and the first councils, like Nicea and those of Chalcedon, which were arranged to find out a way to stop the prosecution of Christians and to find a way to cope with the many false teachings about the nature of Yeshua, we may find the Councils of Chacedon did not give a good answer. Because if in Christ’s person two full natures or even three (like you are considering Yeshua to have) full natures would be, one should also speak about a divine and a human will in him, which is contrary to the Monothelitism, a different form of the monophysitism and also contradicts the saying in Scripture that Yeshua asked why the Elohim abandoned him, but also ridicules his praying and saying to God that he (Yeshua) wanted to do not his own will, but the Will of his heavenly Father.

      I this Yeshua than fooling all the world? And is this god of yours playing with us and being such a cruel god, that after his so called death, which was not a death (because The eternal God can not die) and his saying we are liberate or saved, but still let us suffer for so many centuries. (This suffering is still going on nearly 2000 years after his death.)

      Why did your god also waited so long before saving the people, when it is Him who came to the earth so many centuries later than the event in Eden, where He could have reacted straight ahead and made an end to all this agony?

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      1. Nowhere in the Holy Scriptures you will find a place where it is said that Jesus is the Elohim or that the Elohim would exist out of three personalities, 1. God the Father + 1 god son + 1 God the Holy Spirit, which makes 1+1+1=3.

        Those who believe Jesus to be God incarnated to save the world, but let us continue to suffer, make of God a very cruel God. Because when Jesus is God one can wonder why God did not straight ahead gave forgiveness to Adam and Eve and let everybody to continue to live in peace. Also when God then came to the world as Jesus to do as if he was tempted and as if he died and as if he was taken out of the dead, God did not proof anything to mankind and did not give man an assurance that man can be taken out of the dead. so all that faking is in a certain way useless. And by letting us suffer after he said we would be saved is even worse and terrible agonizing.

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  2. It looks like some people may have difficulty in recognising that Jesus is not the man who they thought could do everything and could know everything. Jesus is limited in what he can do and in what he knows. This should be already a proof for many that he is not God, because God has no limits. God knows everything and God can do everything, but man can do nothing to God.

    We would love to see that “All Christians form a mystical body of Jesus”, like
    hoojewale writes. That is what they should do. They should become one with Christ like Jesus is one with God. For sure Jesus was and is “not an angel”. He even did not exist when angels where created. Jesus has only come into existence 2020 years ago. But before Abraham was born already he was mentioned by God. In the garden of Eden God offered him as a solution for the sins of man. God knew how man would evolve and lots of people were already written in the book of life like Jesus his name Jeshua can be found in it. Them being written in the Book of life or in the Book of death, does not mean they existed already, but God had ordered them already, like He also ordered His only begotten son.

    That son of man and son of God was sent by God and is no incarnation of God, but a creature God brought into mankind in a special way, making Jeshua the second Adam.

    Luke 1:30-35 (TS98)
    30 And the messenger said to her, “Do not be afraid, Miryam, for you have found favour with Elohim. 31 “And see, you shall conceive in your womb, and shall give birth to a Son, and call His Name יהושע. 32 “He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Most High. And יהוה Elohim shall give Him the throne of His father Dawiḏ. 33 “And He shall reign over the house of Ya῾aqoḇ forever, and there shall be no end to His reign.” 34 And Miryam said to the messenger, “How shall this be, since I do not know a man?” 35 And the messenger answering, said to her, “The Set-apart Spirit shall come upon you, and the power of the Most High shall overshadow you. And for that reason the Set-apart One born of you shall be called: Son of Elohim.

    When that child grew up it had to learn everything and it where his parents and the rebbe who made him to know the Scriptures, which Jesus by the Power of God got to know very well. when he was ready to start his public life Jesus went to his cousin to ask him to be baptised, which he did. After Jesus was baptised it was the Voice of God Which could be heard by many, declaring who this man was. God does not tell lies, so we should believe what God Himself told mankind.

    Luke 1:30-35 (TS98)
    30 And the messenger said to her, “Do not be afraid, Miryam, for you have found favour with Elohim. 31 “And see, you shall conceive in your womb, and shall give birth to a Son, and call His Name יהושע. 32 “He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Most High. And יהוה Elohim shall give Him the throne of His father Dawiḏ. 33 “And He shall reign over the house of Ya῾aqoḇ forever, and there shall be no end to His reign.” 34 And Miryam said to the messenger, “How shall this be, since I do not know a man?” 35 And the messenger answering, said to her, “The Set-apart Spirit shall come upon you, and the power of the Most High shall overshadow you. And for that reason the Set-apart One born of you shall be called: Son of Elohim.

    Like the chosen disciples believed in Jeshua him to be the sent one from God, the long expected Messiah, wee too should recognise him as that promised Messiah and (future) king of the Kingdom of God.

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